Horse Breeding

To Cut or Not to Cut

January 30, 2009

Tips for deciding which colts aren’t ideal stallion prospects.

Don’t forget to watch highlights from the 2008 AQHA World Championship Show TODAY at 3 p.m. Eastern/ 12 p.m. Pacific on the Universal Sports Network.

Originally published in the September, 2002 American Quarter Horse Journal

Each year, colt crops are carefully scrutinized, sized up from head to toe and painstakingly critiqued to find the select few, extra special colts that are worthy of carrying on a bloodline. But, what makes a stallion stand out from his gelded brothers?

In 2002, breeders Stan Weaver, Pete Becker and Billy Cogdell told The American Quarter Horse Journal how they made their gelding decisions. Here’s what they had to say:

The Chosen Few

With more than 115 combined years of experience in the breeding industry, Stan, Pete and Billy knew exactly what they were looking for in an ideal stud prospect. They also knew how seldom they found one.

Today’s busy horsemen and women don’t have time to mess around. Frozen shipped semen helps keep busy breeders on schedule. Don’t waste time! Order AQHA’s “Equine Insemination With Frozen Shipped Semen” DVD now to quickly get breeding information.

Billy, a 30-year breeder from Tulia, Texas, gelded all his colts each year, except the “real exceptional ones.” He didn’t keep many studs every year because he used a lot of geldings on his ranch. He raised 30 to 40 babies a year, and kept just a few colts each season.

Stan shared similar sentiments. The 20-year breeder from Big Sandy, Montana, said he sold most of his colts in the fall as weanlings. He kept five or six colts every year specifically for ranch geldings. At the most, he kept three stud prospects every fall. Stan kept those prospects until they were yearlings and then sold them in the sale as yearling stud prospects. Most of the horses at Stan’s ranch, though, got gelded.

Just about every year, Pete gelded most, if not all, of his colts. The 2001 AQHA Legacy Award winner said, “They really have to be up to snuff.”

True to his word, in 2002 Pete kept just two of 12 colts as studs. Still, even those two were reconsidered for gelding again in the fall.

Window of Opportunity

With castrations normally performed at about 1 year of age, breeders have limited time to scrutinize their colt crop for ideal stud prospects. Over the years, Stan, Pete and Billy developed lists of criteria to help them make quick decisions.

The first thing Pete said he looked for in a colt to keep for a stud was a “good mind and disposition.” According to Pete, that’s No. 1.

He also said “correct conformation – straight legs, nice hips and shoulder, a pretty head and neck and a kind eye – is important. An ideally conformed horse is hard to come by. Horses who don’t meet those criteria are gelded.”

Stan based his choices heavily on the colts’ bloodlines. “The most important thing about keeping a stallion is the pedigree,” he explained. “They have to be closely related to a horse that’s done something.”

“If you get three or four generations off – say a great-grandson of a world champion,” said Stan, “you’re getting a little too far away. You want a son or grandson. You can’t get too far away from the top bloodlines.”

Once he established good bloodline, he looked for character traits and athleticism. If the colt demonstrated great athleticism during ground work, Stan might have considered him as a stallion prospect.

Stan said his program represented the cow horse bloodlines, and that athleticism was about the most important. Like Pete, Stan voiced the importance of a good mind. Stan said he definitely gelded horses without trainable minds. He went so far as to say he probably eliminated that horse’s parents from the breeding stock, too. He did not want to pass the undesirable trait on to future foal crops.

If the horse showed good athletic ability and looked like he could really do something, there was a chance Stan would go on to show him. Pending success in the show ring, the horse might have been reconsidered as a stallion.

Stan said that in his mind, everything should be gelded.

“You pick out the ones that are from exceptional breeding, exceptional athletes and exceptional minds – they have to be all three to be a stallion.”

AQHA members get a discount on the “Equine Insemination With Frozen Shipped Semen” DVD. It’s an excellent educational resource for students and breeding barn help as well as any mare or stallion owner.

While strong bloodlines are critical, Pete added, they do not guarantee a good stud prospect. Pete said that one mistake people make is assuming that their baby will make a great stud horse prospect simply because his sire had a high service fee.

Pete said, “It just doesn’t work that way. Just because you had a real strong bloodline and performance bloodlines, you don’t always end up with a good stallion. I guess that’s what makes genetics interesting.”

Billy, who bred his mares to outside stallions as well as his own, considered pedigree to predict strong candidates to carry on his ranch’s performance bloodlines.

He believed there were good horses out there with off bloodlines, but explained, if you’re trying to do particular things with a horse, you have to stay within the bloodline boundaries of your discipline.

Billy told us it was “necessary to stay within a certain bloodline depending on what you’re trying to get done with your breeding program.”

Billy bred for cutting and ranch work, and although he maintained his traditional bloodlines, he occasionally kept good stud prospects from outside stallions when he hunted for new bloodlines for his breeding.

But that stud prospect, of course, had to match Billy’s criteria. He watched the colts as they grew up, the way they moved. He looked at the head, and then he’d go to the hips, look for a short back, low hocks and good feet.

He also assessed their character, immediately weeding out ornery and rowdy colts. His breeding program had no room for stallions that would pass on bad attitudes.

Billy liked to go by the disposition when they were yearlings and coming 2-year-olds. He gelded any horse that got stud-like too quickly, unless they were exceptional colts out of one of his best mares. After many years lessons in breeding, Billy knew that if they got stud-like and ornery while they were young, they would be a lot worse later on. As a rule, every stud they used had to have a good disposition.

Change of Heart

Around weaning time, most breeders have a fairly good idea which colts could make stud prospects. But that doesn’t mean they don’t change their minds – sometimes days before castration. On a few occasions, even these breeders said they regretted a decision or two.

“Several times through the years, I looked back and thought I should have kept one I made a gelding out of and vice versa,” Pete admitted. “We all learn from our mistakes.”

Billy recalled that he had made some mistakes over the years by cutting some he wished he hadn’t.

But, Billy admitted that finding a market for a stud was difficult.

“You had to put a lot of training into them. Sometimes they didn’t sell well.”

Even still, there were a few times he believes he cut outstanding colts who would have been worth quite a bit more money as a studs.

Stan agreed that he gelded some good stud prospects, but he benefited from having good, usable geldings for ranch work.

“I gelded a lot of really good horses,” Stan said. “But in most cases, we used them for ranch horses, and they became really good ranch horses. If they were stallions, you couldn’t use them in a lot of the same situations.” He said he did not have any that he truly regretted gelding.

Stay Sensible

Although they might have regretted a few castrations, the three breeders agreed on the importance of keeping the stallion pool small and strong.

You’ve found that strong stallion prospect that you just know is going to make beautiful, successful babies. Now, it’s time to get AQHA’s “Equine Insemination With Frozen Shipped Semen” DVD. This educational information belongs in every breeders library. PLUS, AQHA members get a great discount on this DVD.

“There are a lot of horses being kept stallions that really shouldn’t be,” Stan said. “Everybody’s got their own opinions, but you want to keep improving on the bloodlines. Everybody wants to stand a stallion, but every colt born is not necessarily a stallion. There are so many good horses out there nowadays that you don’t need to mess around with the bad ones. People need to look at that a little more.”

It’s important, he reminded, to eliminate undesirable characteristics from a gene pool, such as irritable attitudes and conformation flaws.

Pete said he couldn’t stress enough his belief that horses need to have good minds and dispositions. He simply didn’t have room for anything else. As far as Pete was concerned, horses with good minds and dispositions are more trainable and work better.

Plus, Billy pointed out the potential problem of selling a stallion.

In 2002, he said there were so many studs around that “a real good gelding can be worth more money than a stud that’s not doing too much.”

A stallion must prove himself in the winners circle to be a profitable investment.

Stan explained that good stallions can bring in more money. However, he said it was harder to sell them because the market is limited. According to Stan, most people preferred to ride a gelding than a stallion, unless it was going into a breeding program.

TODAY!!! Watch 2008 AQHA World Championship Show Action

Friday, January 30th
3 p.m. Eastern / 12 p.m. Pacific
presented by Bank of America, featured on the Universal Sports Network

Watch exciting cow horse action! Highlights from the reining and cutting events will also be shown along with an update about the World Equestrian Games featuring reining, which will be in Lexington, Kentucky, in 2010.

Comments

9 Comments on “To Cut or Not to Cut”

  • Nicole Fontenot

    Wonderful article. Very educational and true!! Wise Wisdom based on years of experience.
    Thank you, AQHA for this one.
    Nicole Fontenot

  • Shawn Boe

    Wonderful article. I fully agree on the points made. Bloodlines, conformation, and very important disposition. Also I would like to add in my own breeding program if a stallion prospect meets the above requirements, I them breed them to a few good mares, if they can’t produce as well or better than themselves then it is time to call the vet.

  • duane putnam

    I agree with your article that a stallion must have disposition first. I have also found that to have an outstanding gelding, you first must have an outstanding incividual. After 45 years of breeding, we have kept only 4 stallions.

  • duane putnam

    I agree with your article that a stallion must have disposition first. I have also found that to have an outstanding gelding, you first must have an outstanding individual. After 45 years of breeding, we have kept only 4 stallions.

  • Ann Bowman

    I agree with your article also. We have bred horses for almost 50 years. We still have about 30 foals a year. I keep about one stud prospect every other year. Bloodlines come first as we raise Skipper Ws (Wiescamp) horses (It’s pretty easy to predict the mature good ones from the blood). Then we use the same criteria as your writiers. We never consider color. Thanks for the article.

  • Debbie Sorrick

    We stand only 2 stallions: one son of Genuine Doc and the other the son of Al de Partner (Skipper W grandson) out of Ge Ge Sonny. Both are foundation with 1/2 the AQHA Hall of Fame in their pedigree. I bred both of them to a daughter of Sonny Dee, a daughter of Tabano Rip (Poco line) and a grandaughter of Hollywood Gold. By crossing I have a good line of both solid, compact cow horses and bigger, stronger more solid barrel horses. Both my studs are in the mare barn and during the summer ride with mares and sometimes I use them for weaning the foals. They are gentle, smart, caring studs that I trust completely. My mother rode one of them until this last year when she passed away from COPD at the age of 72. My dad still rides and he is 74. We also cut our boys around the yearling stage. Both our studs are young so we don’t need stud colts but we have sold several uncut at the weanling age.

  • K. Le

    I found this article interesting in that the breeders continually touted the importance of eliminating bad characteristics from the gene pool but no mention was made of actual diseases that have a known genetic cause namely HYPP and HERDA. These are “bad characteristics” that breeders must work to truly eliminate from gene pool. Less emphasis should be put on breeding good dipositions and attitudes as these attributes have at best only a partial genetic component. A large component of behavior and attitute are instead instilled through nuture and envionment often learned or adapted from the mare who is intimately invovled in the development of the colt rather than the stallion who is rarely involved in the actual rearing of the colt. Those truly concerned with improving the genetics of the breed must focus on eliminating true genetic disorders.

  • Amy Reynolds

    I found this article very mind opening. I actually have a 9 month old colt, his grand fathers on both sides are world champions, and hes father is a champion also, and I was thinking of cutting him, but he has a very good attitude and a nice confirmation. And yes he is only 9 months old and hes attitude might change but I think he has potential…

  • Heather L.

    Go through any stud book and you will see a very disturbing trend. Horses so closely related that any one can plainly see that they are IN-Bred. You want cutting/reining you find “line bred” Doc Bar. You want Western Pleasure you find “Line bred” Zippo Pine Bar, You want Halter you find “line bred” Impressive. Designer Genetic Diseases were created and yet no mention of that in the article. So many good working lines are being lost because you must have a horse that “Wins” in order for it to carry on its line. Wins help prove that the horse can perform at its given task but I feel that the cost to the gene pool is too great. People are more concerned with winning than they are with what is happening to their breed. The idea of being able to produce a true all around athlete is becoming a thing of the past. A 17 hand hunt horse is not going to be able to cross over into another discipline that is not circle dictated. That 14.1 hand cutting horse is going to have a very hard time placing in the western pleasure class because the “look” isnt right. How many Halter horse are doing anything besides being pretty to look at? (Not a high enough percentage in my book) If you are going to bred, find a stud that has real outsource ability for the sake of the ever limited gene pool and dont just bring in more TB. Try to Find those lines that where great but are dying out because they are not the current trend. The way I see it, we will soon be able to start an internal registry for our discipline specific horses. To cut or not to Cut, that isnt even a question in my opinion.

Add a Comment